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Author Topic: Heroin, Methadone, Subutex  (Read 2836 times)
wal123
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« on: October 27, 2009, 11:19:15 PM »

Hello, I live in Lebanon where the pharmacies don't sell subutex or methadone, but heroin is omnipresent. Anyway, I have been taking heroin for many years but I had stopped for 3-4 years when I lived abroad and had access to Sub. Now, that I'm back to leb I started taking again but have stopped since 3 days. Someone has brought me 400 mg of Methadone and 3 boxes of 8 mg Subutex. So, what I did, was to start with the Methadone cause you can take them without a 24 hours wait (unlike subutex).
Anyway, my question is what should I do now. I still have some methadone and all of the subutex. I have taken 110 mg the first day, 80 the second and around 60-70mg of methadone today. I have been taking the methadone for only three days and the heroin for about a month and a half or maximum two months. Before that I was taking sub for about 3 yearsand before that i was taking heroin for like a bit more than 2 years.
I still have enough Methadone, if i lessen the doses, for around 4 or so days. As for the subutex, I have enough for about a month or more.
So do you think that if i stop the methadone tomorrow after only 3 days and switch to sub I might get withdrawals or not? or should i lessen then switch? thanks a lot for your attention, I appreciate it a lot.

P.S: Some told me to take Heroin again for a couple of days while I do the switch; that it was the only way to avoid suffering, but I really wanted to stop and have managed to convince myself to never again.
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znagemq
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2009, 09:22:58 AM »

It is not advisable to move from Methadone to Subutex until you are on a dose of no more than 30ml per day of Methadone. You need to get on as low a dose as possible and not exceed 30ml. Methadone is active in the body for between 24 hours and 72 but can be detected in urine up to 7 days after the last dose (It has been know in some cases to still be in Urine after 3 weeks!). With Heroin you need to have waited 24 hours before even considering taking Subutex AND be in a state of withdrawal. I am not sure but I would assume that because Methadone takes longer to leave the system compared with Heroin, then you will have to wait longer than 24 hours after your last dose of Methadone AND be in a state of REAL withdrawal (Physical, not mental). If you take the Subutex too soon it will put you into withdrawal quickly and you could end up climbing the walls.

How much Subutex then? Well, thats difficult....
day 1: 4mg initially and take another 4mg later if you really need it
Day 2: 8mg initially and take another 4 mg if you need to
Day 3: 16mg and from then on.

Stabilize and then start reducing the dose say 2mg every week. I have heard people do quicker reductions from Subutex but I don't know how much they reduce and after how many days!?
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wal123
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2009, 12:01:30 PM »

thanks a lot for your reply. I will stop taking the methadone, hoping that since I only took for three days they will take less time to leave my body.
 Afterward, I think that I would need less than 8mg a day, according to my experience.
Thanks again.
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znagemq
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2009, 04:27:16 PM »

That's great. The expert is you and I personally recommend doing as little of what you need if planning to detox straight away.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
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banksy
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2009, 11:24:53 PM »

I would suggest, you taper down a bit more on the methadone until you get to about 30/40mg per day, stop the methadone and then go back on the heroin for 2 or 3 days, take as little as you can manage. then have your last hit/smoke around 6pm, try and not use anything for the rest of the night and then go to bed as early as you can and sleep as much as you can, try and stay in bed all night and in the morning stay in bed again as long as you can bear it. by this point you should be between 15 to 20 hours since your last dose of heroin. half one of the subutex and put under your tongue, it don't taste too bad but as you know taste and smell will be heightened when withdrawing. leave it about an hour and take another 4 mg. continue like this through the morning taking 4mg every hour. Your will not feel that great but you will notice at least 60% of the withdrawal symptoms will be gone. Don't go past 32mg in the one day. if you got some benzo's/sleepers you might want to pop some and get your head down as its gonna be a long day/night. The next morning start the same process over again. I personally think you will eventually stabilise around 16 to 20mg but its gonna take a few days to get you through the crap stuff to the peacefulness at the other end...

good luck
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alli
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« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2009, 07:39:48 PM »

when i transferred over to subutex I only needed to go up to 8mg daily - and did not feel crap at all really, although I had not been using that much gear and not for that long.  I started on 4mg on the 1st day - then went up to eight the next,  - I did go up to 12mg the next day but felt I did not need that much and went down again to 8 the next. alli x
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